Name Change Debate - 2/14/05

News and events as SMSU turns 100.

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rchif0
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Name Change Debate - 2/14/05

Post by rchif0 »

Senate starts doing its debates and all that at 4pm, can be listened to live at:
[url]rtsp://realaudio.moga.state.mo.us/moga/senate.rm[/url] via Real.
SCS/SB 98 - This act generates several alterations to the state's higher education policy. Most notably, the act would rename Southwest Missouri State University, Missouri Western State College, Harris-Stowe State College, and Missouri Southern State University-Joplin.


SECTION 174.020 - This section renames Missouri Western State College as Missouri Western State University; Southwest Missouri State University as Missouri State University; Harris-Stowe State College as Harris-Stowe State University; and Missouri Southern State University - Joplin as Missouri Southern State University.
from: http://www.senate.mo.gov/05info/BTS_Web ... BillID=109
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rchif0
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Post by rchif0 »

The bill specific to our name change started being discussed at about 4:37pm.
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Post by rchif0 »

Name change has passed through the Senate and is now in the House.
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Post by rchif0 »

I'm still the only one posting in this, but what the hell. Mizzou has retracted all objections to the name change as long as "MSU" doesn't try to establish any professional schools (Med, Vet, Law, etc.) and since that wasn't in the plan to begin with, it's a moot point to just help Mizzou save face for giving up.
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Post by tiffybird24 »

I just have one quick question. If this name change happens what do I put on my resume? "I went to SMSU for 2 years and MSU for 4 years." or what about those that already have degrees from SMSU. Does there degree change to being from MSU? because like if they go to find a job and there is no more SMSU than that might look bad for them b/c that college doesn't exist anymore. Maybe I'm just being blonde like i get sometimes, but I was just wondering about that.
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Post by the_red_chimp »

They'll offer to let people get new degrees, and you'll say "I went to MSU for xx years." That's what people will know the place by.
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Post by mkat »

i agree w/ tiffybird24, that is weird that we'll have to change all of that. I went to SMSU not MSU, I'd like to keep it that way!
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Post by rchif0 »

...What're you going to have to change, besides what you say?
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Post by the_red_chimp »

mkat wrote:i agree w/ tiffybird24, that is weird that we'll have to change all of that. I went to SMSU not MSU, I'd like to keep it that way!
Give me one million dollars and I will see to it that you never have to call it MSU, okay?
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Post by Paco103 »

Really? No foolin'?

*cracks open piggy bank*

do you take change?
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Post by rchif0 »

Jefferson City — Opponents of the name change for Southwest Missouri State University drew more irritation than support for their cause Tuesday when they suggested lawmakers hadn't fully considered the proposal and that they were bowing to political pressure.
The House Higher Education Committee voted 10-1 to forward name-change legislation to the full chamber.
http://springfield.news-leader.com/spec ... anelO.html
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Post by mkat »

I don't understand the point of the name change?? Why do you want it?
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Post by rchif0 »

Directly, it doesn't make a difference as it's not changing costs to anybody here or in the state government. It's not changing anything, actually, except the name. Indirectly, better recruiting of students, faculty, and athletes with a more recognizable name. More private funding for a bigger name.
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Post by tiffybird24 »

I undersood that the name change will increse the cost of tuition by something like $10 a credit out. That might not sounds like much but with 15 credit hours thats another $150 that could be spent on books or something else usefull. I could be wrong on that but that was myunderstanding.
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Post by Paco103 »

I haven't heard anything about a price increase from this. Everything I've heard has claimed the price will stay the same - but at the same time they're saying tuition will probably increase next semester no matter what. Tuition is always going up - I don't think that has anything to do with the name change though.
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Post by the_red_chimp »

The name change isn't going to affect tuition. That's like saying that a new pair of orthopedic shoes are going to cause you to become crippled. It's going to work against the hike in tuition in years to come, even if only slightly, because people will want to fund us more.
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Post by rchif0 »

The name change has nothing to do with tuition. Tuition increased about 8% last semester, and it's going to increase about 4% next semester. That's not dependent on the name. And schools nation wide are doing it.
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Post by Frank Castle »

Here's a piece written by an MU graduate who strongly opposes the name change. He's trying hard to garner support for his side.

http://semissourian.rustcom.net/story/156071.html
No to MSU - Name change would be grab for land-grant status
Wednesday, February 09, 2005
John Lichtenegger

For many years, I have been very passionate about the critical role higher education plays in our state's future. For that reason, I have volunteered my time to serve that cause.

I was a member of the University of Missouri Board of Curators for 10 years from 1985 to 1995. I am very proud that I was the only curator ever reappointed by Gov. John Ashcroft and the only curator in the last 50 years to be re-elected president of the board by my fellow curators for two successive terms. I attended Southeast Missouri State University and am a graduate of the University of Missouri-Columbia.

In 1992, I chaired the statewide Task Force on Critical Choices for Higher Education that brought together all public and private universities and colleges in this state as we developed a Coordinated Plan for Higher Education. This consisted of all college and university presidents and the presidents of their respective boards. We worked together for almost a year and produced a plan this is still productively used today in Missouri higher education.

The name change requested by Southwest Missouri State University that is before the General Assembly is a major policy decision for this state that has profound educational and budget implications for all Missourians. Those who advocate for this bill should understand that they are agreeing to support two major state universities requiring a $100 million tax increase to fund them at a minimum level annually.

The name "Missouri State University" says to the world that it is a land-grant, research, doctoral-granting institution. That is not SMSU. It has taken 166 years for the state and other supporters to build the infrastructure in Columbia that serves the entire state of Missouri.

The name "Missouri State University" is not a name to be awarded on the basis of number of students or the population of the geographic area. It is fundamentally related to the mission of an institution, its history and its scope. You don't buy that name or lobby for it. You have to be granted that status by the legislature, and you have to be it.

The University of Missouri at Columbia was established Feb. 11, 1839. In the 1860s, Congress passed the Morrill Act, which provided an entire township of land for the establishment of colleges of mechanical arts and agriculture in all the states. These universities, many named the "State University" -- Michigan State, Kansas State, Florida State -- were what we now know and refer to as land-grant universities. The Missouri legislature, in its wisdom in 1869, voted and decided to establish and designate Columbia as the university for the land grant and the accompanying mission.

In the words of Jonas Viles in his centennial history of the University of Missouri, written in 1939, of the decision in 1869 by the legislature to place the land grant Missouri State University name on the Columbia campus he wrote: "It would be a generation before such a new institution could get going, while a start could be made immediately by attaching it to the going concern at Columbia."

In short, the Missouri legislature decided to place the land-grant college on the University of Missouri campus. Nebraska, Minnesota and Wisconsin did the same thing.

In a few years, the money drain from our fine regional universities to support a newly named Missouri State University (Southwest Missouri State University) could be serious indeed. Professors' salaries could likely increase 30 percent to 40 percent at the new MSU, which could impact funding for the regionals and cost the taxpayers. Our state could end up with two large, mediocre universities in Columbia and Springfield and severely weakened regional institutions.

This same debate was held in the Missouri legislature from 1865 to 1869. Our forefathers wisely concluded to focus those resources on one centrally located campus already showing great promise in 1870.

Missouri currently ranks 46th in the nation in per-capita support of higher education, and students and their families are footing a bigger portion of the bill each year when tuition increases. The name change bill before the General Assembly is about funding, status, doctoral degrees, land-grant image, professors' salaries and student recruitment. It is about further dividing a small pie of higher-education funding that could take dollars and students from Southeast, Missouri Southern, Harris-Stowe, Northwest, Central Missouri State, and the University of Missouri and send those funds and students to Springfield.

The faculty, administrators and boosters of SMSU know what this new name means, and they want it.

First, they know they want the land-grant mission specifically assigned to the University of Missouri-Columbia in legislation signed by Gov. Joseph Washington McClurg on Feb. 24, 1870. The name change is merely a back door and deceptive way of obtaining the land-grant mission, its status and funding.

Second, SMSU wants 30 percent to 40 percent increases in salary for their professors. We don't have the money. Worse, they want that money without the faculty having achieved the academic scholarship, authorship and research work background that would entitle them to that level of salary in higher education.

Third, they want even more recruitment and transportation of students to Springfield from the other colleges in Missouri. We don't have the money for that either.

We need to think about what it means to Southeast Missouri State University and all of Missouri higher education and stop it. It means permanently placing Southeast Missouri State, Harris-Stowe, Lincoln, Northwest Missouri State, Central Missouri State, and Truman State in a third-tier status in Missouri higher education.

I and others fear that by 2015, SEMO could be a satellite campus of the new MSU system based in Springfield. Some Springfield folks are already talking about taking University of Missouri-Rolla into the Missouri State University system.

Universities are big business. The people behind this effort in Springfield know this, and they want a bigger part of the action.

What are the consequences for the other regional universities?

What are the consequences for the other cities that host our colleges and universities?

Should we support a name change for SMSU? Yes, certainly, if it reflects their mission, is the product of sound educational policy making and doesn't damage other institutions' abilities to serve the state.

Should it be Missouri State University? No, because it isn't, and our tax revenue will not support a duplicate of the Columbia campus in Springfield.

Springfield businesses, paid lobbyists and the leadership of Southwest Missouri State are now in Jefferson City every day pressing state representatives and senators to support the name change. Your legislators must hear from you now as none of the other universities have lobbyists to oppose the name change.

A few of us volunteers helped defeat this bill in the House last year. All of Missouri needs your help now.

John Lichtenegger is a Jackson lawyer.
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Post by Frank Castle »

This is the part that got my attention...
Second, SMSU wants 30 percent to 40 percent increases in salary for their professors. We don't have the money. Worse, they want that money without the faculty having achieved the academic scholarship, authorship and research work background that would entitle them to that level of salary in higher education.
Agree or disagree?
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Post by rchif0 »

Most of it is the same bullshit propaganda everybody is talking about. Ironically, the incoming presidents all said they don't expect an increase in teaching salaries. And we're not allowed, under the new law that'd change our name, to create graduate or doctorate schools anyhow. And since the only thing we're directly changing is our name, I don't think that's going to take too much damn money (You know, since fiscal experts said it wouldn't since we're not venturing into any non-existing fields here right now). I'm really hoping that he wrote that before SMSU and Mizzou came to a deal, because if not, he's a moron as most of his points are irrelevant after the senate hearings.
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Post by rchif0 »

P.S. and obviously Indiana State and Illinois State and Alabama State and all those other State schools sure are overpowering their University of ____.

I'D LOVE TO SEE ALABAMA STATE TAKE ON THE CRIMSON TIDE IN FOOTBALL. IT'D SURE BE A CLOSE GAME.
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Post by Frank Castle »

I think he did write it before the agreement. I hope that shuts him up.

Some guy I knew who lived in Texas asked me if I was going to "SeeMo". I was like, "What the fuck is a seemo?" He mistook SMSU for that other school.

I hope the name change happens. Kind of tired of explaining to people that my school is not some little hideaway in the hills. I was reading about Missouri on Encarta yesterday, and saw no mention of SMSU. MU, Washington University, and St. Louis University were mentioned by name. Then, there was a quick mention of "regional" schools in Kansas City, Rolla, Springfield, etc.--none, including SMSU, were named. The name SMSU, as mentioned before, misrepresents our University.
Dear Fucker.... You are my fuckin friend... And i hope u know thats fuckin true....No matter what the fuck happens.....I will stand the fuck by u...I will fuckin be there for u...... Whenever the fuck u need me....to lend a fuckin hand......to do a fucking good deed...so fuckin count on me....whenever the fuck u need me...fuck, I will always be there.....Even to the bitter fuckin end....send this promise to all your fuckin friends to show your fuckin friendship and watch who sends it the fuck back to u....and if they dont send it back.........FUCK THEM!
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Post by Frank Castle »

And why is the thought of SEMO becoming a satellite campus of MSU so disturbing. This guy is speaking as though SEMO and SMSU are in the same league.
Dear Fucker.... You are my fuckin friend... And i hope u know thats fuckin true....No matter what the fuck happens.....I will stand the fuck by u...I will fuckin be there for u...... Whenever the fuck u need me....to lend a fuckin hand......to do a fucking good deed...so fuckin count on me....whenever the fuck u need me...fuck, I will always be there.....Even to the bitter fuckin end....send this promise to all your fuckin friends to show your fuckin friendship and watch who sends it the fuck back to u....and if they dont send it back.........FUCK THEM!
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Post by mkat »

If they don't fund us as SMS, why would these people want to fund us as MSU??? Its the same school with the same programs...limited.
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Post by rchif0 »

At approximately 2:55 p.m. today (Tuesday, March 1), the Missouri House of Representatives "truly agreed to and finally passed" Senate Bill 98 which includes changing the name of Southwest Missouri State University to Missouri State University. The final vote was 120-35. The bill now goes to the Governor's desk for his signature. If signed, the bill would go into law on August 28, 2005.
So screw you guys.
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