Home School vs. Religious Extremism

[Chreteau]

Is it just me, or is this frightening?

Although I agree wholeheartedly with the President's response, my first reaction upon reading the seven-year-old's remarks was to think about cult style brainwashing. This kid is destined to be the next David Koresh, in my personal opinion.

I've never really been impressed by the home school curriculum, however as an American, I respect the right of parents to educate their children at home. What concerns me is the lack of accountability. Although some would argue that parents have the right to raise their children to believe any values they choose, I disagree. As a society, it is our responsibility to make sure that children are not raised with such extremist beliefs that they become a danger to society.

Two years ago, President Bush signed into legislation the 'No Child Left Behind Act.' This act provides increased testing within our public schools, designed to identify problem areas and increase accountability amongst educators.

Perhaps we need increased testing and accountability in the home as well.

Excerpt from 'Ask President Bush'

AUDIENCE MEMBER: "We thank God that we live in a representative republic and we're able to home-school our children, and the fact that we're sharing with Leon Moseley (phonetic) the other night at the Christian Coalition dinner what we're teaching our children about a representative republic, and he said maybe my little seven-year-old should come down here and share it with you. Can you tell the President what Noah Webster (phonetic) said about our republic?"

SEVEN-YEAR-OLD: It would do our system well to learn at an early age that the correct principles of our republic is the holy Bible, the New Testament, and Christianity. (Applause.)

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you. Thank you. Let me say something about religion. Let me tell you something about religion. First of all, that was well-done. Here's the strength of America. You can worship or not worship, and be equally patriotic. That's the strength of this country. Think about it. A free society -- a truly free society is one in which people can worship the Almighty God or choose not to worship the Almighty God, and you're free to do so. And you're just equally an American, no matter what choice you make.

Let me tell you something else. If you choose to worship the Almighty, you're equally an American if you're a Christian, Jew, or Muslim. That's the strength of America. It's essential that we maintain that strength. (Applause.) Thank you for your prayers. (Applause.) Amazing nation when they pray for the President and his family. It strengthens us and sustains us, and for that, I'm really grateful. I appreciate it a lot.

Excerpt from 'Ask President Bush' event, Clive, Iowa, October 4, 2004.

[Bayesian Extremist]

Of course! And not only should we prevent parents from indoctrinating their children with patriotic blather, we should prevent them from indoctrinating them with hate. Yank away children from parents who teach racist or sexist attitudes, or other hateful beliefs such as the idea that homosexuality is wrong, or that one religion is better than all the others, and people of other faiths will be subject to eternal torture. And parents should really get it if they teach their children that it's okay to break the law. If they tell their children that if they want to have a drink underage, they would rather them do it at home first, or that the cops probably won't care if they're only 5 miles per hour over the speed limit, lock them up and throw away the key! Because we can't ever have children believing it's okay to break the law for a better good. And to enforce these laws, since we can't have someone monitoring children whenever they're with their parents, we should have all children sent on a regular basis to a testing center where they will be asked leading questions about whether their parents have ever touched them in certain places. And if there's even the slightest suspicion that the children are part of some bizarre cult, they have to be removed for their own protection. Only when each and every human being is personally accountable to Big Brother for anything they may do, even in the privacy of their own home, will we have a country we can really be proud of!

[Chreteau]

When you're done taking it to the extreme, welcome back to reality.

[Bayesian Extremist]

When you're done taking it to the extreme, welcome back to reality.

I'd say you departed from reality and took things to the extreme first:

This kid is destined to be the next David Koresh, in my personal opinion.

The reality here is that no one was brainwashed. Webster said that the principles of good republican governments like ours came from Christianity. Specifically, he said that "Our citizens should early understand that the genuine source of correct republican principles is the Bible, particularly the New Testament." Although the kid mangled the quote a little, it should be pretty obvious that that was what he meant.

Is it true? Very likely not; much of our system of government dates back to pre-Christian Rome, and I don't think you'll find any guide to good government in the New Testament. But you'd be hard-pressed to prove it's wrong. The idea is based on the fact that some of the philosophers whose ideas were used in our government, and all of the "founding fathers" who instituted such a government here, were Christian. And, as Christians, they often used arguments from the Bible to defend the principles of republicanism.

Who are you to tell anyone what they can or can't believe? Lots of people, especially here in the Ozarks, believe rather firmly that anyone who disagrees with them on religion is in league with Satan and deserve eternal torture for it. It says in the Bible to execute homosexuals, idolaters, and witches. If believing a bit of patriotic mush makes one a danger to society, why don't these things? Who's to judge? Put the right spin on someone's beliefs, and you can make anyone sound like a mental case.

Your parents taught you things, if they had the slightest notion of what parental responsibility meant; why should they be any less accountable than parents who home-school their children? And, lastly, talk of making parents accountable is one thing, but who is going to put the proverbial bell on the cat? How do you plan to punish parents for teaching their children certain beliefs without a rather massive invasion of privacy simply to find out what they are really being taught?

[HatePirate]

I was homeschooled my second grade year. I lost nearly all my friends from first grade, made no new friends, and gained a new level of temporary hatred for my parents. My sisters are both homeschooled, and they've interacted with other homeschoolers. I've met enough to know...the typical homeschooled kid/homeschooling parent is fucked in the head. There are some normal, nice, intelligent people out there (like my own parents) who have the time and actually want to teach their own kids. They spend alot of money on high quality curriculum, and aren't afraid to seek professional tutoring for their child if he or she needs it. Then there are typical, nutty-as-shit homeschooling parents. I've seen some that condemn girls wearing skirts that show anything above the knee or above the forearm. If you say words like "sucks," "gay," "pissed," or "MTV" in front of them, they respond as if they've just heard extreme profanity. Say a word like "fuck" and they look at you in horror, cover their children's ears, and try to "cast back to the firy pit you came from, in the name of God." On top of being completely nuts, the education level of these people seems to max out at about the 6th grade. They get some decent math and english skills. Scientific thought is nearly non-existant. Everything that has happened is a result of a direct act of God. Why do positive and negative charges attract? God made them that way. The debate between creationism and evolution is nonexistant...there is no question, not even for the sake of debate, that creationism is factual. They have little or no skills in critical thinking. They are in the mindset that if mom/dad/preacher/Bible says it, it is true and I have no need/ability/desire to challenge anything said to me. What's sad is we see something similar happening to kids in public schools. They are trying to eliminate the some of the core concepts of right and wrong. God this was just a long rant.

/rant/

[Chreteau]

I'd say you departed from reality and took things to the extreme first.

The point is educational accountability. Not personal values, religious beliefs, etc. The topic is educational accountability. If you base your arguement on issues which are not included, then you're an extremist.

This kid is destined to be the next David Koresh, in my personal opinion.

IN MY PERSONAL OPINION. Enough said.

Who are you to tell anyone what they can or can't believe?

Again, this is not about personal beliefs. This is about educational accountability.

I did say that I agree wholeheartedly with the President's response, which was:

"Here's the strength of America. You can worship or not worship, and be equally patriotic. That's the strength of this country. Think about it. A free society -- a truly free society is one in which people can worship the Almighty God or choose not to worship the Almighty God, and you're free to do so. And you're just equally an American, no matter what choice you make."

Again, the key point here is educational accountability.

The key question is, does there need to be increased accountability in the home?

Let me make that more specific for you.

Should the "No Child Left Behind Act" be increased to include home education as well?

[Bayesian Extremist]

I'd say you departed from reality and took things to the extreme first.

The point is educational accountability. Not personal values, religious beliefs, etc. The topic is educational accountability. If you base your arguement on issues which are not included, then you're an extremist.

And why exactly do you think I'd care about that sort of name-calling, eh? Especially on the Internet?

Now HatePirate did get the subject onto educational accountability. I don't know if you intended to talk about strictly educational accountability, but it's not what you did.

Although some would argue that parents have the right to raise their children to believe any values they choose, I disagree. As a society, it is our responsibility to make sure that children are not raised with such extremist beliefs that they become a danger to society.

See, you were talking about personal values.

This kid is destined to be the next David Koresh, in my personal opinion.

IN MY PERSONAL OPINION. Enough said.

Well, it was what most of your post was about. And since when does "in my personal opinion" change the meaning of that sentence? Besides the quotation, and the facts, e.g. "Two years ago, President Bush signed into legislation the 'No Child Left Behind Act,'" every statement in your post was a personal opinion, unless, of course, someone hijacked your account and typed it for you.

Who are you to tell anyone what they can or can't believe?

Again, this is not about personal beliefs. This is about educational accountability.

Well, excuse me, but I was just responding to what you actually wrote:

Although some would argue that parents have the right to raise their children to believe any values they choose, I disagree. As a society, it is our responsibility to make sure that children are not raised with such extremist beliefs that they become a danger to society.

I did say that I agree wholeheartedly with the President's response, which was:

"Here's the strength of America. You can worship or not worship, and be equally patriotic. That's the strength of this country. Think about it. A free society -- a truly free society is one in which people can worship the Almighty God or choose not to worship the Almighty God, and you're free to do so. And you're just equally an American, no matter what choice you make."

As long as you don't choose extremist beliefs that are a danger to our society, eh? Hey, you wrote it.

Again, the key point here is educational accountability.

The key question is, does there need to be increased accountability in the home?

Let me make that more specific for you.

Should the "No Child Left Behind Act" be increased to include home education as well?

Sorry, I didn't know I was only allowed to state my opinion on precisely what you wanted me to. I'll be more careful next time.

[Chreteau]

Sorry, I didn't know I was only allowed to state my opinion on precisely what you wanted me to. I'll be more careful next time.

Good. Don't let it happen again.